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[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 bladekindeyewear:“ Jane Crocker is very dangerous!(continued from this post)A friend pointed something out to me just now:• Steve: WAIT I JUST… REALIZED• all the symbolism with horuss and rufioh and dirk and jake, right• like all the stuff that...

bladekindeyewear:

Jane Crocker is very dangerous!

(continued from this post)

A friend pointed something out to me just now:

  • Steve: WAIT I JUST… REALIZED
  • all the symbolism with horuss and rufioh and dirk and jake, right
  • like all the stuff that is the same
  • and then
  • rufioh wants to break up with horuss
  • this is incredibly clear foreshadowing to dirkjake not being endgame
  • blastyoboots: yeah i gue-
  • blastyoboots: …..
  • blastyoboots: oh shit

You can probably connect the dots from there. Not regarding Dirk and Jake, whose relationship was doomed due to a wholly different relationship’s inevitability, but more importantly regarding the girl in the equation.

Of course, for those not following, let’s have a little recap?

image

Tiara! Subtle.

image

Meek as can be, Damara Jane shared romantic leanings with Rufioh Jake. However…

image

Rufioh Jake ran off with Horuss Dirk. A relationship where Rufioh Jake was taught to fight, taught to fly, to enjoy a measure of confidence in himself… but one that wasn’t a perfect match, which Rufioh Jake (may or may not have) wanted to end at some point, but would find himself without the courage to do so, as it was difficult to stand against the imperturbable Horuss Dirk.

GT: Well im more than a little sure he likes me in that way if you catch my drift.
GT: And what with how he is…
GT: Just so relentless and aggressive about everything you know?
GG: Yeaaah.
GT: So i just start to wonder deep down if maybe its inevitable.
GG: What’s inevitable?
GT: Him and me. As more than just best buddies.
GG: Uhhhhh…
GT: I know if he has his heart set on something he will never let up.
GT: So maybe its just going to happen and things will be easier that way and i should just try to come to terms with it?

Damara Jane was obviously distraught about losing her one true love to another, but that alone wasn’t enough to transform her personality. What pushed her off of a cliff…

image

Was Meenah’s intervention and antagonization! (In Jane’s case, this would likely apply to the Condesce, or possibly also to the Auto Responder.)

I always wondered why Andrew made the particular romantic subplot between those pre-Scratch trolls so unnecessarily complicated. Why was so much detail warranted, I wondered? Now we know: He was carefully phrasing their situation to mirror how Jane’s will unfold!

So, just how disastrous was Damara’s turn? It shouldn’t be understated:

image

For multiple separate ghosts of an individual to show up in the afterlife, they must be killed within doomed timelines. And in the ministrife, as well as from Damara’s word, we can see that there are thousands of duplicates… so much so, because Damara kept killing her friends and dooming the timeline whenever they got closer to success!

In the link at the top, I showed you how dangerous an inverted Jane Crocker could be; now, you have another enormous canon hint to how dangerous she will be.

And just one more closing note:

image

image

SHIT SHIT FUCK SHIT FUCK

It turns out I missed a monumental implication of this connection.

Read this part of Aranea’s explanation of it all:

image

image

Unfortunately, you unleashed something even you weren’t prepared for, and you had to deal with her yourself. After a long 8loody duel, she killed you. And you would have stayed dead if not for me!

Now, I didn’t bring this part of it up earlier. I knew there were plenty of hints to their rivalry, to at least some sort of fight between the Condesce and Jane…

pipefan413: The baroness would raise her very strictly, mentoring her in the art of baking. The girl took to the lessons with fierce determination. Her only act of defiance left was to one day surpass the baroness in skill, and beat her at her own game. […]

…But the batterwitch was determined to make sure this destiny would never be realized. In her limitless cruelty she would do all in her power to keep [Jane and Jake] apart for the rest of their lives.
pipefan413: The girl that day swore she would bring down the baroness and her evil empire. She would use the many secrets she’d learned over the years against her, and began carefully plotting her downfall.
pipefan413: Years went by. The girl was nearly ready to put her plan into action. But then, just like that, the baroness disappeared. She was never seen or heard from again.

…but I figured she’d have allies in the fight, and didn’t see any possible plot relevance to the unlikely possibility of Jane Crocker defeating the Condesce singlehandedly. Why would Andrew possibly write the plot that way? It didn’t make any sense, and even if it did, there was no reason it was more likely than any other unfolding of events.

But that’s because I forgot about the CURSE!!!

His curse is one of conditional mortality, with the desired outcome contingent on her service.

image

The Handmaid will enlist the Condesce, extending the same bargain once offered to her. It will be the sort involving neither negotiation nor possibility of refusal, expressed in terms plainly understood by the psychotic genocidal.

image

The two last trolls alive, blood of rust and royalty, will make each other pay for the crimes against their race. Their payment will be mutually dealt in the currency of punishment and reward at once. The Condesce will be rewarded with the power and immortality her new service entails, and punished by the grueling slavery for which it is synonymous. And you, young lady, are to be punished by death at the hands of your replacement. And so too will this be your reward.

I had forgotten completely about Lord English’s powerful immortality curse, which is transferred to her MURDERER when a cursed servant is finally killed!

image

TT: Her boss supposedly had jacked her power level through the roof. I even heard, and don’t quote me on this, that she may have been over 9000.

If Jane ends up with that..?!????!!! !!! ! D:

(EDIT: reblogged a third time with more on Roxy’s role)

2012-11-27

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 Jane Crocker is very dangerous!(continued from this post)A friend pointed something out to me just now:• Steve: WAIT I JUST… REALIZED• all the symbolism with horuss and rufioh and dirk and jake, right• like all the stuff that is the same• and...

Jane Crocker is very dangerous!

(continued from this post)

A friend pointed something out to me just now:

  • Steve: WAIT I JUST… REALIZED
  • all the symbolism with horuss and rufioh and dirk and jake, right
  • like all the stuff that is the same
  • and then
  • rufioh wants to break up with horuss
  • this is incredibly clear foreshadowing to dirkjake not being endgame
  • blastyoboots: yeah i gue-
  • blastyoboots: …..
  • blastyoboots: oh shit

You can probably connect the dots from there.  Not regarding Dirk and Jake, whose relationship was doomed due to a wholly different relationship’s inevitability, but more importantly regarding the girl in the equation.

Of course, for those not following, let’s have a little recap?

image

Tiara!  Subtle.

image

Meek as can be, Damara Jane shared romantic leanings with Rufioh Jake.  However…

image

Rufioh Jake ran off with Horuss Dirk.  A relationship where Rufioh Jake was taught to fight, taught to fly, to enjoy a measure of confidence in himself… but one that wasn’t a perfect match, which Rufioh Jake (may or may not have) wanted to end at some point, but would find himself without the courage to do so, as it was difficult to stand against the imperturbable Horuss Dirk.

GT: Well im more than a little sure he likes me in that way if you catch my drift. 
GT: And what with how he is… 
GT: Just so relentless and aggressive about everything you know? 
GG: Yeaaah. 
GT: So i just start to wonder deep down if maybe its inevitable. 
GG: What’s inevitable? 
GT: Him and me. As more than just best buddies. 
GG: Uhhhhh… 
GT: I know if he has his heart set on something he will never let up. 
GT: So maybe its just going to happen and things will be easier that way and i should just try to come to terms with it? 

Damara Jane was obviously distraught about losing her one true love to another, but that alone wasn’t enough to transform her personality.  What pushed her off of a cliff…

image

Was Meenah’s intervention and antagonization!  (In Jane’s case, this would likely apply to the Condesce, or possibly also to the Auto Responder.)

I always wondered why Andrew made the particular romantic subplot between those pre-Scratch trolls so unnecessarily complicated.  Why was so much detail warranted, I wondered?  Now we know: He was carefully phrasing their situation to mirror how Jane’s will unfold!

So, just how disastrous was Damara’s turn?  It shouldn’t be understated:

image

For multiple separate ghosts of an individual to show up in the afterlife, they must be killed within doomed timelines.  And in the ministrife, as well as from Damara’s word, we can see that there are thousands of duplicates… so much so, because Damara kept killing her friends and dooming the timeline whenever they got closer to success!

In the link at the top, I showed you how dangerous an inverted Jane Crocker could be; now, you have another enormous canon hint to how dangerous she will be.

And just one more closing note:

image

image

EDIT:  Reblogged with a shocking additional development!!!

2012-11-25

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 hellstobetsy asked:

You say mental clarity is the most important thing a sylph can heal. But Aranea can’t heal Mituna. The healing power of sylphs as shown in the comic is that Aranea can heal blindness, blindness, and only blindness. Because she’s letting other people see the light, or *sharing* her aspect with them. Sylphs being healers is a much more narrow role than the other classes. Aranea’s biggest character trait is sharing information, and Kanaya’s never healed anyone.

image

Ahem:

AG: My perspective is informed 8y my class and aspect. It was to my advantage as a healer to see things a little differently. To find equanimity across many different outcomes. 
GC: OH? 
AG: There’s more to the realization of our roles than gaining flashy powers. 
AG: And there’s more to healing than repairing 8attle damage. 
AG: You killed a friend and you understanda8ly feel regret. 
AG: 8ut it’s done. She is gone and you are still here. 
AG: Now what? 
GC: …

Taking such a narrow view on things is missing a large point in Homestuck:

AG: You could look for a8solution through rationalization. Everyone would have died if you didn’t take action, so why trou8le yourself with guilty emotion? 
AG: 8ut there is no real healing power in 8elieving that. And I don’t think it’s what you wanted to tell yourself anyway, is it? 
GC: NOT R34LLY 
AG: Or what a8out through renunciation of responsi8ility? If you were just a tool used 8y reality to perpetuate itself, where is the 8lame? 
AG: 8ut that would 8e another empty idea that has no power to heal. 

AG: Violence was respected and cele8rated on your world, 8ut remorse was rarely felt and pain could never heal due to such empty justifications. We died out a wounded race, and you are all that’s left.
AG: The process of healing first involves sifting through what it isn’t, which happens to 8e almost everything your trou8led mind has to offer. 

That the Doom-based sacrifice Mituna made, the heavy brain damage that resulted, can’t be healed under Light’s purview does not make a Sylph of Light a useless eye-healer.  Aspects are NOT just literal flashy powers, and the player roles which channel them aren’t just a set of spells like a League of Legends hero loadout.  They also have to deal with the segments of personalities, people’s inclinations, their mental states, their willingness to act and the bonds they share.

In fact, these glitzless, personal role traits are not just important side-qualities of the powers one is given.  In the context of causing changes in the course of reality, they are arguably the most important!

Kanaya certainly did heal through Space.  What do you think she was doing when she took a notoriously imprecise Sgrub cursor:

image

EB: rose my piano!!! 
EB: :C 
TT: Sorry. 
TT: No nuance to these controls at all. 
TT: I was hoping to bludgeon the imp without letting go of it. Guess I can’t really do that. 

And managed to do THIS:

image

GA: These Events Are Inevitable And Regardless Of Whatever Emotional Entanglements Obfuscate Their Significance They Will Ultimately Serve An Important Purpose 
GA: The Curse Had Nothing To Do With It 
GA: And Karkats Notion Of A Curse Is Inseparable From His Perception Of Events As Intrinsically Negative And As Tailored To His Personal Dissatisfaction 
GA: And Your Bad Luck Is The Same Way 
GA: I Believe Anyway 
AG: Uh. Ok. 
GA: What Would Happen If You Just Cleaned Up A Bit 
GA: Dont You Think You Would Step On A Few Less Hard Triangles 

Or as another, even more literal example, what about THIS:

image

HMMMMM????  :)

Cleaning, redecorating spaces with fabric and furniture, people with dresses… does that not count as a form of healing Space?  And cleaving through someone with a chainsaw so they can have new legs installed, is that not a form of healing through Space?

GA: I Thought Id Be Friendly Though 
GA: And Remind You That You Do In Fact Have A Hand In All The Terrible Things That Are About To Happen 
GA: Because Thats What Friends Are For 
GA: And The Fact That What Ensues Will Be Terrible 
GA: Is An Immutable Fact I Am Stating For The Record 
GA: And The Fact That We Will Not Be On The Same Team Is Similarly Immutable 
GA: It Does Not Mean That Teamwork Is What Isnt Taking Place Here 
AA: s0rry i didnt f0ll0w that 
GA: Ill Be Here To Help 
GA: If You Need Me 
AA: 0k 
AA: thanks

Kanaya helps others, mentally and physically.  It’s what she’s driven to do and part of how she identifies herself, even down to her screenname, grimAuxiliatrix.  When friends like Karkat or Vriska had misconceptions about the status quo, she stepped in to provide an alternative explanation, to state that things are going to be how they always were, to ease their minds.  And when friends like Aradia used that fact as an excuse to flee from culpability and cause destruction, she offered advice in the opposite direction, seeking for people to secure their mental health through an understanding of the reasons for that which IS.

And we need not explain her constant affairs in the ashen quadrant:

ROSE: This could create a schisasm in our group, that we could all be torn apart. 
ROSE: And I don’t wand that!!!!! 
ROSE: I want us all to stay friends, and jus be… peaceful togehter. :( 
KANAYA: Me Too 

KANAYA: Where Two Parties Are Highly Drawn To Each Other Through Animosity 
KANAYA: They May In Fact Be Perfect For Each Other In That Tumultuous Quadrant 
KANAYA: But To Pursue The Relationship Would Be Chaos 
KANAYA: Much Like The Scenario You Laid Out The Two Kismeses If Left Unchecked Would Devastate All Their Other Relationships 
KANAYA: Those In Their Own Quadrants And Even Those In Other Peoples 
KANAYA: So It Is The Job Of An Auspistice To Make Sure That Doesnt Happen 

Which puts space between two individuals to quench their contention for everyone’s benefit!

Kanaya has fit snugly into her role as a Sylph of Space all along.

2012-10-28

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 thefinalwraith asked you:
Could you restate your position on what you think Vriska’s role in the story will be, specifically regarding Doc Scratch’s last warning? I’m curious to see whether your perspective has changed at all recently.

The warning tfw is referring to:

AG: Blech. What a sno8. You’re worse than my meddley meddler meddlefriend. 
I wonder why they waste their camaraderie on you. I’ll never understand it. 
AG: I thought you said you would 8e 8rief???????? 
I’ll say one last thing. 
Though the magnitude of the ensuing destruction resulting directly from your actions will be neither possible or necessary for you to fathom, there nevertheless ought to be a silver lining. 
The only question is whether you will live long enough to see it. 
I’m not a gambling man. 
But if I was, I wouldn’t bet on it. 
Goodbye. 
AG: Zzzzzzzz. 8ye, assh8le.

(Hey, she actually said Blech instead of 8lech!)

Vriska’s upcoming actions or choices will, inadvertently or otherwise, result in unfathomable destruction.  As to exactly how she could, though, it’s rather freakin’ hard to say!

Calliope is a rather vulnerable option for Vriska.  She specifically intends to “fuck shit up” - as well-meaning as she meant the expression - and there’s no more conveniently available vector for shitfuckery than Calliope’s Void-hidden soul, a ghost embodying reality’s most serious hope for victory as well as a vessel of potentially incredible power.

In that scenario, Doc Scratch arranged for Vriska’s death specifically as a means to have Calliope’s ghost cornered.  Why Vriska specifically would be necessary for this is just as hard to say, though, unless Calliope is hiding in a form appropriate for a “Thief of Light” to carelessly snuff out.

As for other options… well, I don’t know.  But keep in mind that Doc Scratch had her killed specifically so that she would eventually cause this destruction.

Let’s move on to the resurrection angle.

Aranea confirmed that ghosts do not age in appearance, and that having a relationship with a living person liable to grow into adulthood would be awkward and infeasible for them.  Since even the doomed John that Vriska met was snuffed out by Lord English’s mighty shoop-da-whoop - and many other such Johns presumably would/will be destroyed as well by LE’s continuing rampage - Vriska forming a relationship with yet another John is right out.

There’s a certain amount of romantic determinism in play, here.  Vriska has earned the right to romance, to the extent that the story must have her either live or (double-)die through completion of a romantic arc.  Through this and the above, I can narrow down four five possibilities we could even remotely expect for how her arc could unfold in terms of degrees-of-alive, before and/or after she causes the foretold destruction:

  1. Tavros undergoes major character development somehow, and Vriska forms a relationship with him.  Vriska stays dead.
  2. Vriska commits a climactic sacrifice on behalf of the likes of John, redeeming herself through ghost-death.  Vriska double-dies.
  3. John dies before the plot is out, and forms a relationship with Vriska.  Vriska stays dead.
  4. Jake dies before the plot is out, and forms a relationship with Vriska.  Vriska stays dead.  (I honestly didn’t realize this option until I’d written #3 out.)
  5. Vriska revives and pursues John, Jake, or both.  Vriska is revived, but would be made to appear in serious danger of dying, especially after her choices result in disaster.

How likely are these?

First of all, #3 is right out.  John ain’t dyin’, far as I’m concerned.

Aranea’s ghost might bite it before this is up, and would essentially have to for #4 to be a viable possibility.  Aranea is simply more the attractive prospect to Jake in the long run, as far as we can tell.  (Though we may be wrong.)

I see #1 as unlikely.  Tavros may undergo some character development, especially if he revives in the interim, but I doubt it’d be enough to coalesce with Vriska.

That leaves #2 and #5… neither of which are mutually exclusive, necessarily.  She could get revived and eventually pursue #2, and perhaps be denied from doing so in order to have her live, etc etc romantic drama.  And she could pursue #5, but fail, and perhaps even be corrupted into reversing her character progression or something (as unlikely as that seems to me).

But it seems very likely - the most likely - that we will see #5 play out in some way, shape, or form.  Not just because it makes sense, but also because:

The only question is whether you will live long enough to see it. 
I’m not a gambling man. 
But if I was, I wouldn’t bet on it. 

This statement seems to factor her eventually living again into Doc Scratch’s plan!

Not that I have the slightest clue how.  Denizen revival, even though the timing seems off?  I don’t know!

 

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 Class/Aspect Role Table - Revision reasoning…

the-sad:

bladekindeyewear:

We quite recently saw the Page god-tier uniform:

image

If you’ll notice, Tavros is basically dressed like Robin.  Makes you think that perhaps Page is indeed the passive counterpart of the (dark) Knight after all.

So, from a number of different sources, concepts and ideas, I finally have a complete, good-feeling guess as to the final role layout/pairings, and their associated purposes.

Here we are:

  • Purpose - Active - Passive
  • — Standard Classes —
  • Know - Mage - Seer
  • Change - Witch - Maid
  • Destroy - Prince - Bard
  • Steal - Thief - Rogue
  • Repair - Sylph - Heir
  • Exploit - Knight - Page
  • — Master Classes —
  • Embody - Lord - Muse

Three passive and three active classes per gender among the standard classes, the way it works out here.

Read More

I believe that god tier accent colors are related to how active/passive the class is. The Page and the Heir should be both active or both passive since their shoes/belts/codpieces are yellow.

Why do I think this is so? Well, look at Vriska.

image

Her shoes are red. This isn’t suspicious. Red compliments orange quite nicely. Now let’s see Rose.

image

Blue slippers? I did not expect that! I thought the colors of shoes formed a hidden pattern based on class, which was a reasonable idea at the time. After all, we had never seen two different god tiers with the same class at the time.

Let’s take a look at a Sylph.

image

If you look closely enough, you can see that Aranea is wearing pointy baby blue slippers. Hussie has said Seers are passive, so we can assume Sylphs are passive.

Let’s dig a little deeper.

Dave’s class is active.

image

This would mean Maids are also active. Disregard the red soles on the bottom: they’re the same shade of red as the aspect symbol so they don’t count.

image

that’s all i’ve got

Hm!  Could be!  …Oh, and Pages of Breath have yellow shoes in the flash, just like John!!  That would confirm Passive Heirs!

Maid has always been a strong candidate for an active class, especially under the “Repair” purpose.  In which case, a Maid of Time would be “One who repairs/heals Time, or repairs/heals through Time”.  Aradia can indisputably be construed to fit that description.  A Sylph of Space would be passive in comparison: “One who invites the repair of Space or heals through Space”.

In that alternative - which, honestly, makes a little more sense than my initial guess - we’d have:

  • Purpose - Active - Passive
  • — Standard Classes —
  • Know - Mage - Seer
  • Change - Witch - Heir
  • Destroy - Prince - Bard
  • Steal - Thief - Rogue
  • Repair - Maid - Sylph
  • Exploit - Knight - Page
  • — Master Classes —
  • Embody - Lord - Muse

This is… perhaps more of an even distribution.  We still get a 3/3 active/passive split for males and females.  Males would own a monopoly on Destroying and Exploiting; Females would own a monopoly on Stealing and Repairing.  Both of these choices make some sense.  Then, the broadly applicable classes that Know and Change are split between males and females: for Knowers, the males are active, and for Changers, the females are active.

Wow, this is really, really balanced.  I like this more, actually.

It also means that our concept of broadly-manipulating god-tiers, ones who have the power to visibly shift Breath or Space at whim, is based on the intentionally introduced bias of mainly showing us the abilities of those who Change/Manipulate.  The abilities of other god-tiers could be pervasively less visible and more obscure, like Vriska’s luck-stealing (mainly depicted through surplus visual aids), her luck stockpile’s continuous benefits, and Seers’ knowledge.

I am three times more satisfied with this list!  Thanks, the-sad (EDIT: it’s now once-ler-direction)!  :D

I’ll edit my original post.

EDIT:  A clarification from the-sad, since this was misunderstood by at least one person earlier: “What I mean to say is that there are two shoe colors per aspect. One is an active shoe color and the other is a passive shoe color.”  Emphasis mine, because bolding turns me on.

EDIT2:  It could be noted that the Repair roles could also be equated with the ability to Create.  In other words, a Create/Destroy dichotomy between the genders.  In this situation, the Sylph uses her ability to create mainly in order to mend the damaged, while the active Maid is more likely to create outright.  In other words, the Maid of Time can make time!  That definition(/pun) certainly embodies what Aradia did with all those doomed timelines and clones.

2012-7-29

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 ashdenej:“ Word of God on how DD convinced the Condesce to hand over the ring!Very intriguing.”Ah, well that seals it, then. (FUCK, “seals”. That one wasn’t even intentional.)I’d thought from the beginning that Aranea’s “keys to the kingdom”...

ashdenej:

Word of God on how DD convinced the Condesce to hand over the ring!

Very intriguing.

Ah, well that seals it, then.  (FUCK, “seals”.  That one wasn’t even intentional.)

I’d thought from the beginning that Aranea’s “keys to the kingdom” spiel was a little shippy:

ARANEA: She even got me to agree, 8y promising she’d return to her place as the heiress when we finished playing. 
ARANEA: Needless to say, we had no idea what we were getting ourselves into. 
JAKE: She sounds like a handful. 
ARANEA: Yes. 
ARANEA: She’s not all that 8ad though. 
ARANEA: Well…….. 
ARANEA: When you really get to know her. 
ARANEA: And when she’s unarmed. 
ARANEA: Which is…….. pretty much never, now that I think a8out it. 
JAKE: … 
ARANEA: Ok, she pro8a8ly is all that 8ad. 
ARANEA: The point is, you have to know how to handle her. 
ARANEA: Regal types can 8e very touchy, even the ones who seem to revel in anarchy. 
ARANEA: 8ut if you know all the right things to say and do, she will happily hand over the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. 
ARANEA: After all, royalty is royalty. 
ARANEA: Just let me do the talking for a while, ok? 

And then when DD echoed it, I got even more suspicious, given his interest in Gray Ladies.

Then Aranea started shoo(sh)ing Meenah, calming her down with talk between them of hugging it out, so at least <> was pretty clear.

Now that reminder of swedish fish?

There’s no way there isn’t going to be some relationship-thing, unrequited or otherwise, from DD toward the Condesce.  Probably flushed.

2012-5-29

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
BYB rambles about roles, classes, and aspects

Alright, so for the longest time, we saw Aspects - breath, time, space - and thought they mattered only literally.  And we thought the Classes in front of them barely mattered, or didn’t see the point in them (besides, perhaps, the Seer).  Furthermore, we saw only token correlations between many of the trolls and their roles, thinking their failure at learning what the game’s quests were supposed to teach them denied them the heavy role associations other players seemed to achieve.

UU and Aranea have shown us otherwise.  Not only are the roles meaningful, but one is expected to reflect their role even in their very nature.

Under the break, I’ll be going into the following topics:

  • From the introductions of every troll in Hivebent, Andrew knew what their game role was, what it meant, and used it to shape their personalities.
  • Just as Light and Heart have been shown to mean broader things than they literally imply, other aspects have unintuitive side-applications as well… ones that the players and trolls have embodied for quite some time!
  • Just as Kanaya and the other trolls were dreadfully uninformed on the purposes of the Sylph, Prince, and Bard classes, even Rose might have been wrong about the general idea of the Heir class and such.
  • The Knight of Blood deserves some special explanation, and the Page of Breath as well, especially with how he’s played out storywise.

This will not be boring.  Click to read more.  It will be long, but pony gifs have been added to ease your eyes while reading. >;]

EDIT:  Added a bit at the end about the Witch role.  EDIT2: And a supporting Blood quote an anon supplied.

EDIT3:  If you liked this post, you might want to check out this one I derived from it.  :D

Now, first off, I’m suggesting that Andrew used the roles he set up for the trolls to help build their characters, and vice versa.  It wasn’t just after-the-fact assignment; for many of the roles, we have reason to believe that he had them in mind all along.

image

To demonstrate this, let’s look at the classes for which we now know specifics, but didn’t before:  the Rogue, Bard, Prince, Sylph, Knight, and Page.  We’ll be looking at their aspects too, of course, as that second bullet point.

Nepeta has always been something of a throwaway character.  The definition of expendable in the dictionary, as Andrew put it.  There wasn’t a whole lot in her… but the Rogue of Heart role wasn’t entirely absent.  Theft and scurrying about in the background was later folded into her - though seldom selfish theft, if you note her role’s passive nature - and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to have figured out by now that shipping and the idea of stealing hearts for others go hand in hand.

But for her, I’d like to note the Land of Little Cubes and Tea.

Yes, it’s a throwaway land that stands for LoLCaT.  But do keep in mind, tea is commonly related to soothing the soul.  The true nature of the Heart aspect was in mind all along, in other words.

Gamzee has been filling the first half of his Bard role - inviting the destruction of rage - for quite some time.  Inviting imps and friends to dull their aggressive nature with soporifics, bewildering Equius with camaraderie, even inviting Eridan to slam a faygo.  Readers were joking back then that he could make anyone chill out!  So… who’s to say that Andrew didn’t have his role in mind the entire time?

If you think about it, were there anything Andrew would want to plan out definitively beforehand, these game roles and their meanings would be it!

I’ve heard people still say that they think he slapped them in on the fly, but hopefully further evidence will convince you otherwise.  Let’s keep going, shall we?

Eridan has always been hopeless.  And very early on… we got that line of foreshadowing where he specifically said he wouldn’t kill Kanaya.

Since Kanaya’s vampiric transformation was hinted from the beginning, perhaps Eridan blasting through Kanaya and her matriorb was, too?  In other words, perhaps Andrew had Eridan’s Prince of Hope role in mind since he started talking?

Lately, Hope has been broadened into “belief”.  This certainly makes everything Eridan said since the end of their session into a channelling of his role!  Disbelieving magic, for instance?  That’s not just his ‘hope’ in magic he wasn’t buying; he was disparaging belief  in the future, believe in the present, their chances, magic, and even belief in his friends.  But you’ve probably figured that much out already, so let’s move on.

image

Kanaya is a huge, huge example, of what I’m talking about.  Her role never seemed to be relevant to her before, not even the Space part.  Learning that Sylph meant Healer turned all of that on its head.  Kanaya has been healing, even with Space, this entire time!  Remember when she meticulously cleaned up Vriska’s room with the usually notoriously-unsteady game cursor, to keep her from stepping on things?  Remember when she sawed off Tavros’s legs so he could get robotic replacements and walk again? Her long rationalizations to Karkat, even her auspisticizing addiction all play into the idea of a healer class.  It wasn’t just an extension of the 'grimAuxiliatrix’ handle: it was what Andrew meant by Sylph all along!

So… let’s say that their roles were in mind all along.  Sollux’s prophecies of death, Tavros being enamored with a slow-advancing, fun FLARP class, et cetera.

What does that mean about the Knight of Blood?

Karkat is a special case.  His blood color, or different blood colors for trolls in general, was an afterthought as far as Andrew was concerned.  And we already know what a Knight does, a powerful warrior class that exploits the flow of their aspect as a weapon.

So how the hell has Karkat Vantas exemplified that?

Let’s look from the beginning of Hivebent.  What sort of theme has coursed through his entire arc, since his naming page?

You have a passion for RIDICULOUSLY TERRIBLE ROMANTIC MOVIES AND ROMCOMS. 

Nothing yet…

You’ve got AMBITION. You were meant to be a bigshot. To be in charge of something huge and really important, and to be totally ruthless about it.

Well, there’s leadership…

CG: I WONDER WHAT KIND OF SHITTY THING I DID TO DESERVE SUCH AN AWFUL BEST FRIEND. 

[…]

CG: FRIENDSHIP ISN’T A DISEASE SHITSPONGE. 
CG: IT’S LIKE… 
CG: A MISTAKE. 
CG: A BIG JOKE OF NATURE. 

And friendship, there…

CG: I AM A HATCHED LEADER AND YOU KNOW IT. 

So maybe…

CG: ARE WE NOT FRIENDS ANYMORE BECAUSE OF STUFF I SAID. 
TA: eheheheh you LIITERALLY a2k me that every tiime are you jokiing. 

Well, would you look at that?  Hmm.

image

Perhaps we should look at Karkat’s major accomplishments of his entire session.  Let’s see:

  • Forming a blood-inspired alliance with Jack Noir to overthrow the Black Queen.
  • Getting the two teams to work together to advance and defeat the Black King.

HMMMM.  :)

CG: NO, I’M YOUR LEADER BECAUSE OF MY INCREDIBLE TACTICAL SKILLS AND MY ABILITY TO MOBILIZE AND MOTIVATE A BUNCH OF USELESS PEOPLE TOWARD A COMMON GOAL, AND BECAUSE I’M EXTREMELY AMBITIOUS AND INTREPID. ALSO BECAUSE LEADERSHIP IS IN MY BLOOD. WE’VE BEEN OVER THIS. 

Remember how Light ended up meaning fortune, sight, and mental clarity?  How Hope broadly meant belief?

Karkat’s role is to exploit blood as a weapon.  What if Blood, rather than some stupid literal interpretation, is meant more strongly in the terms of blood bonds, blood brothers?  Camaraderie, alliance?  Friendship?

Crying over their corpses, worried about their team falling apart, leading them on crusades against the likes of the humans… it all makes so much more sense when you realize that Karkat is the goddamn Knight of Friendship!

Let’s take a minute to talk about the Page.

Tavros is a damaged kid.  A few times in his life, he could have been said to be genuinely adventurous.

image

And then Vriska would cut it short.

image

The Page is a slow class with plenty of potential.  They could eventually do great things, anything – or even everything, as old Grandpa showed us.

You are a great admirer of his, and you are not alone. Your grandfather is a WORLD RENOWNED EXPLORER-NATURALIST-TREASURE HUNTER-ARCHEOLOGIST-SCIENTIST-ADVENTURER-BIG GAME HUNTER-BILLIONAIRE EXTRAORDINAIRE. He has taught you everything you know. 

So, as many have pointed out, 'Page’ isn’t meant as a Knight in training, but rather a piece of paper… a blank slate, possibly with the potential to cover the same ground as plenty of other classes.  (Even Seers, if that 'brain ghost’ of Dirk in Jake’s head is genuine!)  That’s where 'Zephyr’ came from in Tavros’s land name, emptiness waiting to be filled.

So if Tavros is a blank page, he was eager to illustrate upon himself as a FLARPer.  Then Vriska came along, frustrated with his slow drawing, and decided to tear him in half.

During the game, he recovered a bit.  The Page of Breath was certainly blown around by Vriska, dragged along to progress.  But at Vriska’s quest bed, she traumatized him and had him crumpled up in a ball and sleeping for the rest of his session.

“Thief: Tear into Page.”

And once the session was over, it didn’t take long for her to put a hole through him and throw him away.  She just didn’t have the patience for slow classes.

AG: I used to really like him and always wanted to help him get stronger, so that he might stand a fucking chance to actually make it on our world. 
AG: 8ut he was just soooooooo weak and indecisive. He wouldn’t change! 
AG: And when he tried to change, it was too little and too l8. Always l8. L8ey L8ey L88888888. 
AG: Too l8 to kiss me. 
AG: Too l8 to kill me. 

In comparison, Mindfang was willing to wait for the Summoner to ascend to greatness.  In fact, she was willing to wait a century for him to even exist!

Given how Aranea tied Light to mental clarity, understanding, it’s unsurprising that a Thief of Light damaged and blinded his psyche into one who thought Vriska’s false brand of confidence was something to imitate.

I suppose with Jake, we’ll see what a Page can do given time and motivation to develop his role.

image

A last thing about these various aspects.  It seems that each aspect covers a broad range of things, and a master of them gains a measure of dominion over all of them to some extent.  So, what do some of these specific-sounding aspects actually broadly cover?  I have a few thoughts:

  • Rage seems to deal not only with anger, but also the perverse enjoyment of others’ misfortune, from my point of view.  Hence Gamzee’s planet, the Land of Tents and Mirth, and the facepaint-like symbol that seems to represent a smiling form of anger.  There’s a theory I subscribe to that each aspect has an opposite, like Void to Light (channelled by Rose when she went grimdark, possibly; even her speech was obscured!), and obviously Doom to Light.  What is Rage’s opposite, if this is the case?  Hope perhaps?  Breath?
  • You’ve heard my spiel on Blood already.  It’s interesting how enthralled and disgusted Karkat was with friendship, how traumatized he became by the idea of sloppy interspecies makeouts…  perhaps lately, uu has been channeling the same with his 'pornography’ demands, his fetishization of his own disgust with the concept?  What if uu is a Prince of Blood?
  • Doom is supposedly associated with death, but Sollux seemed to have extra lives and half-deaths aplenty.  Perhaps the denial or evasion of death is part of the role as well?  (Jane, the Maid of Life, is set to invert his role, likely playing a part in the creation of the immortal Lord English, for instance…)  Furthermore, with all Sollux’s failed proselytizing about everyone’s deaths, I’ve wondered if perhaps the Mage is a passive(/active?) counterpart to the Seer, one who brings understanding of his aspect to others.  If that’s the case, perhaps the Sufferer’s pre-scratch role was a Mage of Blood?
  • Breath implies not only wind, but I believe direction.  Take the parcel pyxis system on John’s world, and the Breeze, both delivering things in directions they need to go.  Note that John Egbert has never once been at a loss as to what to do next; at every moment, via coincidence or otherwise, he’s had a sure direction of exactly where to go and how to move forward toward his goals.  An Heir of Direction.

But, perhaps Heir doesn’t mean what we thought, either?  Some have speculated that the Heir is the active(/passive?) counterpart to the Sylph, using their aspect to heal as they see fit.  After all, John extracted a Tumor from his session’s battlefield with his abilities, metaphorically healing the battlefield and universe to be viable post-Scratch.  Equius, for instance, crafted an intricate robot to help his crush regain physical existence and emotion… perhaps that was an exercise in healing, as well?  :)

Their lands are probably related to the true meaning of Heir, though.  In the Land of Wind and Shade, Wind pertains to Breath while Shade somehow pertains to the Heir role, presumably.  In the Land of Caves and Silence, Silence is Void, the destruction of information… so Caves are related to the Heir.  Being enclosed, enveloped in shadow… perhaps one’s meant to fill that or enlighten it, clear it or break through?  Or perhaps it means something similar to Zephyr, emptiness waiting to be filled, the Page role’s (active or passive) counterpart?  Hmm.

I’m not sure, I guess.

image

Wow, that took forever.  Guess that’s all I’ve got, for now!  :D

EDIT:  FUCK I forgot about Witches.

It seems to me that maybe the Witch is meant to serve as a guide and transport to others, leading them over metaphorical or literal distances and bringing them together.  Jade used Skaia’s clouds to shuttle things to the right spaces and times, brought her friends together over pesterchum, and eventually led John and all their planets through broken glass.  Feferi, the Witch of Life, actually brought everyone together in death by setting up the shared dream bubbles!

(Librarian's/head archivist's/losar's note:  aaaaaaaaayyyyyyy! let's gooooooo !! BKEW first "real" (imo) wall-of-text class and / or aspect meta analysis rant. let's gooooo !! B) )

2012-5-26

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 You... Are aware that the whole Spider-Girl thing was pretty obviously referring to Aranea, right? You know, the one who's actually pretty much guaranteed to become a more relevant character in the future, and was described by Jake as the girl of his dreams, and has actually interacted with him and probably will continue to do so?
Anonymous

She’s our interface to the pre-Scratch trolls, just like as Mindfang she was our interface for learning about the ancestors.  Through her loquaciousness, we’re set to learn of what happened in the pre-Scratch session and the broader scope of events in the next intermission, and perhaps some more about Lord English and how he operates.  She’s been dead for eons, and isn’t set to come back to life.

She also isn’t a sassy hero sort of spider-girl, like the one alluded.

However, she is indeed the girl of his dreams.  A spidery cross between Jane and Vriska, she’d be perfect for Jake, when you think about it.

And Jake is going to get a psychopath instead.

2012-4-19

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 Oh, right…

Wanted to mention a couple random things about recent/semi-recent updates.

image

Regarding Vriska showing up in that dead panel for andrew, her appearance there would make a great deal more sense in retrospect if she, say, created Lord English.  Andrew has her killed with a mocking Cage face, she happens to create Lord English, LE happens to kill Andrew, she has the last laugh etc etc.

The second thing I wanted to address is regarding Kanaya, which I was reminded of by someone liveblogging a homestuck readthrough:

GA: It Must Be A Certain Madness Im Afflicted By
GA: To Orbit Those More Reckless And Dangerous Than I And More Daring For It
GA: I Guess I Want To Help Them But They Never Can Be Helped It Seems

Oh no, Kanaya is one of those kinds of people. Listen Kanaya, it’s not healthy. You can’t fix them ok?

Now that we know that the Sylph is a healer class - one which, by Aranea’s indication, is predisposed toward the healing of others emotionally as well as physically - Kanaya’s gravitation to the dangerous and damaged makes a great deal more sense.

Aranea did the same thing, with Meenah:

AG: In fact, she’s the only reason we are here in the first place, as opposed to merely ceasing to exist upon the scratch. 
AG: In life, she was the only one I would have called a close friend, in a way. 

Now a little while ago, whereloquaciousnessgoestodie argued to me that Kanaya’s arc focused around unhealthy codependence to the extent that cutting herself off from her gravitation towards the likes of Vriska and Rose - even as far as the possibility she’d end her arc or perhaps choose death without a fulfilled romantic pair - was not only plausible, but perhaps a moral imperative.  I didn’t see it that way, but I couldn’t find much strong evidence against that interpretation.

Here, though, we’re presented with an alternative.  Healing others is a part of her role.  She doesn’t need to cut herself off from her predispositions - which would be against her role, in fact! - but rather learn to stand up both for what she wants and against those on paths to harm themselves and others.  She’s already begun to learn this (clocking Vriska), and it’s been quite effective so far.

Basically, especially with this new evidence:  While her arc will have her healing a race and possibly universes, I don’t think it will end with her having sacrificed her relationships to do so.  The plot could very well scare us into thinking she’ll take the option, as I’ve often posited, but it won’t pull the trigger on her.

You guys are very good at making me doubt my assertions, here - which I’m glad for - but ties like this healer thing eventually remind me that Rose is set to breed lilacs out of a dead land.  If Rose helps Kanaya resurrect her race, I don’t see anywhere else these two can go but together, really.

2012-4-2

landofspaceandrainbows: a picture of the homestuck space element symbol on a subtle black and green background of stars and constellations (Default)
[personal profile] landofspaceandrainbows
 :::β

ahpoordogsbody:

FUCKIN OATH THATS ONE HELL OF AN UPDATE

briska confirmed for Real and Relevant YES YES YES

I’m not sure whether it’s bringing her into the picture, or just emphasizing that Terezi’s decision at that moment wasn’t something to feel sorry about; she would need to apologize to both, not just one, meaning that her in-the-moment choice was irrelevant to how she should feel.

Besides, why would dead Vriska be out of communiqué and her body missing if she wasn’t the one to come back???

Furthermore, by commenting that the decisions she made leading up to the confrontation restricted her options, Terezi is essentially confirming that Doc Scratch and Gamzee intentionally made it so she had to kill Vriska.

denizens not necessarily tied to elements? huh.

No, that wasn’t said.  Aranea just said they spoke to Echidna, not that Echidna was her denizen specifically.  We know the denizens are tied to elements.

canonical Sylph garb hooray. the Sylph is a healer — kan is “healer of space”? we already have john as a planet doctor, removing the Tumour from the battlefield; maybe kan does a similar thing to prepare it (OR THE METEOR) to recieve a new universe? i bet this ties into rose’s prophecy about the matriorb

Well, Rose is to breed lilacs out of a dead land…

the pink moon and that wee pink moonlet: meenah has memories there. she’s responsible for her friends “surviving” the Scratch — “thief of life” powers at work?

Oh come on, dogsbody.  Isn’t it obvious how she helped her friends outlast the Scratch in dream bubbles?

Meenah killed them.Every single one, and then herself, before the Scratch reset reality.  Possibly with her powers for the God Tier ones, not that she necessarily needed them.  The Scratch can’t wipe them from existence if they’re already dead.

I’m hoping some of them hadn’t gone willingly, to give ol’ Condesce more characterization.

2012-3-29

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